Why Abyss Crystals

Wednesday August 1st marketed a new achievement for me, for a month now I’ve seen many gold makers jumping into the “Let’s stockpile Mode”. As a result of the discussions about the post yesterday on twitter as force me to push back this weeks post so I can write in more detail WHY I choose the items I did and hope to put more like on them, so that you don’t feel I’ve mislead you in any way.

I Wrath when I got into Gold Making, I made many mistakes. I wish someone had been around to share their opinions and ideas on why something wasn’t a good idea to stockpile on. I thought, it would be something if I went and wrote a post.. what not to stockpile. I thought it would be a very useful post and it seem to draw in some negative tweets that even lead to no one seeming to want to talk about why I was wrong on the post itself.

Stockpiling is not something you can simply do over night and be done with it. It is and can sometimes take months and to build up a good supply at the price that YOU are willing to buy at. I started building my list and buying up in February of this year. It’s now August, so just think about it for a moment. I have stockpiles on two servers.

Why Abyss Crystals

I need to stress something, do not just take what I say as some great truth. Look, Abyss Crystals on my server can sit at 30g each while the shatter dust sells for 10g. Well what happens if you shatter an Abyss Crystal and get 8 Infinite Dust?.

Not everyone can have 10 guild banks or more of space. Some people raid with their characters and need to be in a raiding guild, which means you’re not going to have a guild bank on that character. Many people have said they disagree with my list, Farli even wrote a post in responds to why he felt I was wrong in my choices. Cold even said he disagreed with 75% of my post on twitter.

Now Crystal’s are one of the many lessons I learned coming from Wrath, being a Wrath Baby, call it what you will. I made massive mistakes stockpiling and it cost me space, time a gold I could have made. All i wish to do now is give you the tools, the information to make your own choices, don’t be sheep. If nothing that came out of the post it got people talking, good or bad that is not important how you view me. This blog and the content I have written speaks for itself.

Back in wrath, Crystals drop to about 15g and I end up spending nearly all my gold which was about 8,000g on them over 2 months. I spend something like 5,000g on them. Patch 4.2.. I saw the rise of them to 75g and dust to about 12g. To this day I don’t know why that happened, but I made my first 200k in about 3 weeks shattering over 100 stacks of Abyss Crystals that I sold mostly the dust at 10g, the Essence at 12-15g and some scrolls.

I made out and was able to buy Fireland Patterns and BoE gear for three of my characters at the time I was playing. I’m banking on being able to do that again come Mist of Pandaria. What is important to remember is that it’s still a risk and you should think about what you stockpile before you do it.

What Should You Do?

For starters, thank for yourself. Look at your server Auction House, go to The Undermine Journal and do your research. Find where the prices, can you get Abyss Crystals at 30g or less? What is dust going for?

I’m more than aware that many people read my post yesterday and choose not to leave a comment. The reasons for that could be any but I’ve been told one was to save me from being pretty much embarrassed on my own blog or having to over and over defend my opinion in the post.

Please spare me such pity and if you have something to say, just say it. Even if you 100% disagree and think I’m an idiot. As long as your comment is constructive and you bring value reasons to the table.. it does nothing but create more discussions. Sure it sucks when I work really hard on a post and everyone seemed to dislike it. That’s fine, this isn’t a Popularity Contest or who’s blog is better. It’s about creating a free open source of discussion.

If I am wrong about something, I’ll be the first person to admit publicly on my blog. I’m a little sad that some really good discussion happened over the post on twitter and none of you will see it due to that.

So if you have an opinion and feel like I’m wrong about something. SAY IT! Heck.. didn’t stop Phat Lewts from voicing his opinions on my Simple TSM Transmogrification Groups post.

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12 thoughts on “Why Abyss Crystals”

  1. Another reason to get on twitter people :D

    The strcuture of the previous post was a bit weird, you were saying dont do something, but then further down do it but in a specific way. Please look into running Disenchant scans, if you can pick up infinite dust cheaper than via abyss shatter is that not a good thing?

    we all learn from discussing topics <3

    1. The reason I feel the Abyss Crystals are better then storing the dust itself is a space saver. If you can get the dust cheap and space isn’t an issue for you. Then you should do both. It doesn’t hurt. But not everyone has endless space to store mats for a long haul. I myself am in in for a long haul. I don’t plan on selling everything day one when MoP Launches, some things I’ll sit on for months and months.

  2. I don’t think anyone’s saying that Abyss Crystals are a bad idea, just that the resulting mats of that shatter should also be picked up if they’re cheap. Getting the most bang for your storage buck may be important, but I believe there may be less of a space issue than you think.

    True, not everyone can have 10 guild banks. In fact, I’d say relatively few do. Many people (myself included) are in raiding guilds and certainly can’t move themselves away from there. In addition, you want your alts with gathering professions or enchanting to be in a high-level guild for the Bountiful Bags perk. However, the likelihood of these circumstances applying to all 10 character slots is improbable, to say the least.

    So, we can assume everyone’s able to at least get one guild bank, probably more (if you know anyone who has the time to actively raid on 8 or 9 toons, even, I salute them). If they’re serious about stockpiling, getting at least the first 3 or 4 tabs is a given. Al 6 may be better in the long run, but I understand that’s more of an investment for some than for others.

    There’s also the personal bags and banks of those alts That’s not an insignificant amount of space, particularly if you’ve got a rough idea what you’ll be stockpiling and can grab some profession bags.

    Of course, there’s also the mail. It’s never your first choice, of course, and can get unwieldy fast if you’re using it for a wide variety of items. For massive quantities of a few items, though, it’s actually not that bad, particularly if you make good use of Postal and TSM Mailing

    Anyway, what’s the moral of the story? Space should be something you think about, sure. It’s not unlimited (except in the case of the mail, but even that eventually becomes more trouble than it’s worth with the 50 mail at a time limit). You certainly don’t want to just go cramming any old junk into that valuable space. However, there’s more space now than there’s ever been. If you’re sure something’s going to drastically increase in value, space concerns shouldn’t prevent you from grabbing it in any form while it’s cheap.

    1. Personally I never used the mail to store mats because it can cause issues and you can forget and lose items that way. I’ve read stories of other gold makers doing that and end up losing out on mats as a result.

      I think it’s important to remember that space and storage is very important vs what your stockpiling. I think also that Abyss Crystals can hold more dust pre-slot then a stack of dust. A stack of dust is 20, if you have 100 slots filled with dust that is only 2,000 items you can sell. If you sell each fr 8g each, you net gold take is 16,000 gold. Which for some people that could be a whole lot of gold to make just out of dust.

      Let’s look at Abyss Crystals. The shatter, I shattered a stack, each time I had a chance to get dust. The first 5 Abyss Crystals was dust that gave me 10 each. Giving me 50 Dust out of just 5 Abyss Crystals within one stack. For me to store that much dust on it’s own would take 2 and half slots. The next 5 where small stacks of 5 and 2 and then Essence of 5 and 2. After a full stack I end up with 4 stacks Greater Cosmic Essence and 120 Infinite Dust or 6 stacks. I got 6 stacks of dust out of 1 slot.

      I’m not sure if you see my point. If let’s say every slot gives me, 6 stacks so every slot now holds 120 dust vs only 20, I now have 12000 dust to sell. If I sold it all for 8g each my god take is now 96,000 gold. Keep in mind this is all base off RNG. You can get less dust and this is not factoring in say I sell each Essence for 5g each. I have 4 stacks of 10 which is 40 giving me an extra 200g.

      The way I see it is, buying just dust and storing it gives you 100% of chance to sell that much stock. If I fill 3 guild tabs f dust, that’s 300 stacks. You know how much you will get. However you take the risk if you say filled those tabs with just Abyss Crystals you could end up with less dust. You can’t count on the Essence making up the difference either.

      That is all I’m saying there has to be a balance and it’s a risk.

  3. I would leave a more relevant comment, but Tails pretty much summed up everything I would have said (and a little more, and probably better than I would have).

    Anyway, I enjoy the blog sir. Keep up the excellent reading material.

    1. Yes well everyone’s option is important no matter how little it might be. And thank you I shall keep doing what I do best.

  4. Also, I just had another thought. More of a question, really. Why invest big in Wrath enchanting mats in the first place? What makes you think the prices will increase?

    Let’s look at why the prices went up between Wrath and Cata. Demand decreased a fair amount, since the Wrath enchants weren’t being used anymore (for the most part). There’s still a decent floor for the dust in particular, though, since a metric crapton of it is required to level enchanting. Meanwhile, supply dropped even more than demand. Content that generated them was now strictly the domain of people leveling through.

    Now, let’s look at Cata to Mists. Demand for Infinite Dust shouldn’t change much, except perhaps an initial surge from people leveling new pandas and/or monks, but that’s about it. Supply shouldn’t really change, either. If you want an accurate predictor, I’d be more likely to look at how Arcane Dust performed in the Wrath to Cata.

    I see prices going up some, sure, but not any more than prices across the board from inflation. But as any investor will tell you, the goal is to beat inflation.

    If anything, the thing I see having a rough parallel will be Hypnotic Dust. However, the effect may not be as dramatic as Infinite Dust for a couple of reasons. First, it only takes about half the Hypnotic Dust to get from 425 to 500 as it does Infinite Dust to get from 350 to 425. Second, the shuffle’s been massively popular in Cata, and it may take quite a while until the stores of “Shuffledust” that came from it are gone.

    That’s not to say Abyss Crystals aren’t good to grab up. We should all be doing so whenever the price is right. But I don’t see what’s leading you to predict the massive price increases that would justify stockpiling them in preparation for Mists.

    I may very well be missing something, and if so, please tell me. If I’m not, though, it seems there’s no reason not to just start gradually shattering them and selling the results now.

    1. It depends on your server and how large of the community you have. There are some reasons why Infinite Dust went up in price. First, bags, you need 2 for one bolt of Bolt of Imbued Frostweave and it takes 6 bolts for one Frostweave Bag. So it takes 12 dust to make one bag. They are 20 slot bags yes but they do sell rather nicely and sell because not a whole lot of people bother to sell them.

      Another factor to think about is Enchants, some classes like hunters the wrath enchant was still BiS. The glove enchant 22 Agility that all Hunters use, is a wrath enchant. For a long time the cloak enchant was also BiS for hunters which again was a wrath enchant that used dust.

      You also have the twink enchant market. Level 60 70 and 80 twinks used Wrath Enchants and those go for a pretty dime too because hardly anyone farms. And then lastly as you said those leveling. Not just new characters being made like pandas or monks. Some players change professions, I know its hard to believe but there are players out there who only play one or two characters and their professions they take are base off what is best for raiding or pvp. If its Engineering and Jewelcrafting, that is what they have. But if Enchanting becomes better, they will switch.

      I know for example Swifty, a warrior who does YouTube Videos he only plays one character, his warrior. He use to have Engineering and Jewelcrafting. However 4.3 came out and with Epic gems, it made Blacksmithing way overpowered due to getting more then 80 stats. He dropped Engineering for Blacksmithing. Blacksmithing is not cheap to level nor is Engineering either. What if Enchanting becomes the new hot profession for pvp and raiding? You’ll have a whole bunch of people leveling it.

  5. Alright, one thing at a time…

    First off, the mail. Any item you place in the mail is returned to sender if it’s not opened in 30 days. The only way I can think of to lose something in the mail system would be to delete the toon who originally sent the mail (you can’t delete the alt with the mail because the game won’t let you delete a toon with mail).

    Second, we may be making different assumptions about supply. Now, as always, your server may vary, but I don’t think I’ve seen 100 stacks of Abyss Crystals over the entirety of Cataclysm. If you can get so many cheap Abyss Crystals that you look at them in your storage medium of choice and say “Okay, that’s enough, I couldn’t possibly fit more”, then yeah, you may want to stick to just Abyss Crystals If, however, you’re eagerly waiting on new Abyss Crystals to snatch up, you may want to see if you can get some Infinite Dust at comparable prices.

    I suppose all I was saying is that yes, space is a concern, but so is margin and volume. If you can find some Infinite Dust at really good prices, why not snatch it up, too?

    On the subject of the value, you do have a point with bags. I’d caution, though, that any increase in price of frostweave bags, and therefore perhaps of its components, will be very temporary, spanning the initial rush of new toons. This market will also depend greatly on the Frostweave Cloth market, though I see no reason for that to change substantially.

    Those rare best enchants and the twink enchant market are definitely things that help keep demand up. However, I don’t see demand for these increasing in MoP vs. Cataclysm. Best case scenario, that part of the demand will stay the same. Worst case, it may go down as new enchants replace those few that are still best for max-level. That’d definitely be something to check with the theorycrafting communities of the classes that use them.

    As for people switching professions to the one with the best perk, the $64 question would be whether or not enchanting will be this profession. Do you have information to suggest this is the case? I’m honestly curious, as I haven’t had the time to research this myself. If not, I wouldn’t count on that being a reason for the demand to increase.

    Overall, we may see some spikes in price in the first month or so, but I don’t see the kind of lasting price increase we got going from Wrath to Cata.

    1. You seem to look over the fact that some of the best enchants for my class in cata where not cata enchants but Wrath. I don’t know about other classes if they had enchants that where from wrath that still held value and use over any new one that came. Blizzard made a big mistake there, and its not shocked really.

      I should have been more clear, I started my supply of Abyss Crystals at the end of wrath, not just with buying the Abyss Crystals that people where dumping to get ride of, but also herbs. I’ve already talked about how to get Abyss Crystals from Snowfall Ink on the Power Word Gold Podcast. I’m pretty sure I did and if I didn’t, you basically buy cheap Wrath herbs and mill them, you end up getting Snowfall Ink, you can turn 5 of them one Orb and some paper into an offhand to DE into a Abyss Crystal.

      Which is another use for those frozen orbs. I understand that many people tend to look at the new markets and leave old ones, I tend to keep in the old makers and do the old way of things and tend to make alot of gold because less people do.

      Like is said, Dust has never been under 5g.. I have never seen it dip under that.. and if it did it was for a very short time. Point is, are you buying Dust at 5g? I don’t think you would unless you need it right there on the spot.

      I don’t know for sure if Enchanting will become the go to profession, I don’t know these things, but to dismiss them because one finds the idea of storing Abyss Crystals over the dust itself to be silly or not best use of your gold. Maybe dust is cheap on your server, if it is.. then I have to ask myself. Why would I never stockpile it then. At this point in Cata, if you see Dust so slow it’s worth buying NOW I don’t see it going up very much anyways.

      Unless you have so much room you can store a tab or two of it some place and worry about it 4-5 months form now and sell it higher then what it would sell for now then okay. If you can’t do that.. remember I had all of this store on a character’s personal bank and bags and shuffled it around to another toon for months until I put it in a guild bank a month or two before I end up selling most of it and making a killing.

      Last about the mail box. Again I do not recommend it, and if you have so much that you need to be doing this, I recommend that you make an alt, get some guilds signs and make a new guild and store it. If you send something to Character B from A, and after 30 days it will go back to Character A, if Character A doesn’t mail it again or take it out, the mail gets deleted. You also only can see 50 mail at a time. What happens if you need the mail box for something? Are you going to just two two characters mail boxes because of this?

      I have 8 characters on my main account, and three guild banks. My main is in a raiding guide, I have two alts in random guilds. If I needed too I could have all my toons in it’s own guild other then my main. That be something like 7 guilds which for my server would be over kill vs my old server that has 8 characters and each on is in its own guild and those guilds are full of mats. There is always a better way to get space then using the mailbox system.

  6. Point by point:

    I’m not looking over the fact about your enchants. I’m saying that this aspect of the demand won’t change between Cata and Mists. In order for price to go up, demand has to go up or supply has to go down. My question would be, why do you see the demand for these enchants going up in Mists? I’m not saying the demand won’t be there, just that I don’t anticipate it changing from Cata to Mists.

    I also completely understand what you mean about manufacturing crystals with Snowfall Ink. I personally have a fair amount of Snowfall Ink built up, and will probably have more by launch, because of all the Ink of the Sea I’m making for glyphs. However, I wouldn’t necessarily make these into Abyss Crystals now. Space is important, but so is flexibility.

    The Snowfall Ink may also sell well to new scribes or those late to the party, since it’s still needed for Northrend Inscription Research, and AFAIK, many glyphs are still learned that way. The Frozen Orbs may be better used being converted into Eternals, since account-wide mounts might mean some people finally take the plunge and get a Chopper.

    In general, it’s usually best to store in as raw a form as possible, within space constraints. You can still make those Abyss Crystals later. You can’t turn the Abyss Crystals back into ink or orbs later.

    The thing about whether or not enchanting will be the go-to profession come Mists wasn’t about storing Abyss Crystals vs. Infinite Dust. It was about whether those mats would increase in value come Mists. One of the reasons you argued they will is because enchanting might be the new go-to profession. I was just saying I rarely bank on “might”.

    With the mail box, I kind of assumed you’d be mailing everything from your main banker, and I would hope you log onto that toon more than once a month. As for needing to get to other things in the mail, I would assume the alt you’re mailing things to is one really not used for much of anything else, so it wouldn’t be an issue on the receiving end. When it comes back to your banker, all you have to do is set those items up in TSM to mail back to that alt.

    I’ll admit it’s a last resort. I’ll admit there are usually other options for storage. However, I wasn’t the one saying that there wasn’t enough space to store items in multiple forms.

    1. Yes I agree and you shouldn’t take one item over another. If you have a back stock of Snowfall Ink you are better keeping them, long with orbs and even if turning them into a Abyss Crystal’s later isn’t idea, you can always make other uses of those mats.

      Might is the keyword there, and it all depends on the demand too. I know its easy to think that everyone these days are a gold maker, but not everyone is and some people just want to make enough gold to buy there gems, enchants or a mount they always wanted.

      About the mail box issue, well it depends on what your banker is being used for. If hes your posting banker or a banker who buys its still not idea because you mail box will always be full. You run the risk of not getting something and losing it. The risk for me is just too high. What if you take a break from the game? Then where will you store all those items? And if you could move them to a guild bank or your bags.. the question is why didn’t you just do that in the first place? But yeah I can see why some people might find it ideal, for me it’s not even if I do use TSM and Postal, which I tend to delete my TSM mail to characters often too.

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